what is a person supposed to do? The last time Robert Morris met and greeted anyone as part of his service he still had his braces/retainer on. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. In October, he resigned as head pastor from Mars Hill, a Seattle megachurch with a Sunday attendance of 13,000. The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. I probably wont be won over to the side of communism. rather than come in glory he came in humility. Robert Morris loves putting his flock under the law regarding Mosaic Law tithing and also under Deuteronomy so he can squeeze out extravagant gifts. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. This is why I said above I dont think Driscoll should even be allowed to go on speaking engagements, sell Christian books, or anything involving Christianity. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. Wonder what else is in the Acts29 playbook that we havent seen yet! Over the next two Sundays he will continue to remind people to vote Yes and to take a Yes sign for their yard. We hunkered down and prepared ourselves for the impact of Mark Driscolls threat. They secretly instigated men who said here come the false charges. Che was tots adorbs. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. I simply offer another perspective. If anything, Chandler has to present himself as the UnMark to a degree that few connect dots. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. I tend to doubt it but who knows. I believe that.' also, While I appreciate that we were exposed to different theologians, it seemed the bent was toward Calvinism. Likewise, in house churches sin happens because people will be people. He was an abusing thug. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. vinegar is disinfectant for wiping yourself. Treating the congregation as customers is pure evil, IMO. I agree more with you than I would like to. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. it isnt anguish if i dont care and i am just a head of some church deciding that someone cant seperate or divorce or annul because i dont have time to look into it right now and i will get back to them with my judgment when i think its appropriate. Is to be- Six months for Driscoll does not represent later in life, give him another ten or twenty years. None of them see anything wrong with this. You dont find out about some of the really bad stuff until you are pretty deep into it. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. I dont think he would agree he is doing well at all. It is all choreographed and it works! So we were allowed to leave in good standing. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? sometimes i have hurt people because i have gotten caught up in the excitement of a new orginazation or enterprise but i have never been able to stay that way long, my conscience pricks me until i stop and go back and make things right with people i have hurt. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog, i remember that, thanks Van, for the reminder. Restaurants and bars / taverns also use atmosphere teams. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. James River Church is one of the largest Assemblies of God churches in the United States. Dont get Left Behind. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. Bob, I loved your comment. Church membership requires showing your W-2 and mandatory tithe I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. I read somewhere that the church that bought, I think, the main campus property has a female pastor. Lindell then got personal with me. This is either a complete falsehood or shows their utter lack of interest in the facts, because, as HUG so aptly quotes GK Chesterton, and let me paraphrase her, celebrity pastor unto celebrity pastor is brother. I dont want other people having that same regret. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. I hope more will speak up in the future. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of encouraging and maintaining the procedures necessary to keep people safe and secure, James River Church officials explained. Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. Matthew 27:33-34 I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. The Bible tells us lotz of neet stuff before it happen/happens. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? Well-meaning people are attempting to put Jesus in structures that do not foster the expression of his life in the saints. Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. "And how many knownot everything you read on the internet is true". Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. And he cant really do that if he keep holding on to the more sexist, frat boy type of Christianity that Neo Calvinists support that he was espousing at Mars Hill. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. And later did sort of brag about how beneficial it was to him in his spiritual life. If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). Some Pentecostals or Charismatics are okay with women being preachers or teachers. Bob, I loved your comment. Acts 6:15, they were enraged. helpful or even hopeful in terms of my eternal afterlife. Hillsong is an international megachurch based in Australia that has exported its influence to major global cities and into churches music across the United States. But we dont know yet for sure. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) sheep are watching and wolves coming. Return to homepage. It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. . I think people on all sides of these conflicts did some pretty horrendous things, as well as some decent things. like i said it went away from that and i didnt look into why. i think He has some Jesus in him, it just gets mixed up with other stuff. . I assumed that it was just me and 25,000 other people had no issue. until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. Edit: Thank you to everyone who commented. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. Youll see they have no standards regarding truth, salt of light. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. Lets see. IMO they are not qualified to interpret the Bible. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. It really bothers me that he seems to profane things still. (glorifies paul. Connect With Us! We have been led by God to support another ministry. Almost all of them pointed to Gods leading. It certainly looked like they had been coached on what to say. James River Church makes promise after Christmas event backlash Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. Maybe the apostles did not want to be found by a major persecutor of the movement and Saul/Paul had no alternative but to put some distance between himself and his previous life until things calmed down a bit. Hey Sam you may be interested in how Jews interpret the Mashiach (messiah) passages. See here: As you all know, my family and I have been facing difficult trials and persecution. On the other hand though a lot of people obviously like the guy enormously and his business model for his church is pretty successful. Even if youre looking at Christianity from a strictly business like mindset, I dont see how its good marketing or profitable to do the sexist shtick. "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.. Is this similar to Radical Chic? I had never heard someone talk like that. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. In a statement to the Ozarks Independent, James River Church said it has taken temperatures at the door, sanitized its children's areas and common areas multiple times per day, provided masks. Oh no. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. This is not a measure of faith. If we were after money we would need to time our exit before Driscoll pulled the roof in again. peaceable disposition. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. Missouri church service Saturday evening. When you add atmosphere teams to further manipulate peoples worship experience that is too much. arrogant, a lover of money, So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. In case this was not a rhetorical question, the correct answer is entertainment. i dont know what the answer is except to not get under the pastor leader concept ever. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. I need to talk to the president, he may be unaware what some of his professors are teaching. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. love to hear that sermon. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? . It is an issue of protecting other people. In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. Its all he does. (if you heard anything on the internet its not true, mark scrubbed his site already so if its on the internet a bunch of liars wrote it) we dont want to shoot the wounded. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. Driscoll also distanced himself from past crude and misogynistic remarks, calling the perception of what I think about womenentirely my own fault. @ sam: Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? No body guards. At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. The text is not prescriptive. Also, as Driscolls friend, John Piper, wrote: pastors are not professionals. Many others voiced their concerns about the images coming out of the church over the weekend, including Springfield-Greene County Health Director Clay Goddard, who said he was shocked by what he saw considering Missouri currently has more than 328,000 cases of the virus and no less than 4,358 deaths since the pandemic began. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. Gramp3 and I were recalling today the first time we ever heard Driscolls name brought up in a church. ( As with the dituation with John Mark mentioned in Acts, and the conflict with Peter mentioned in Galatians. I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. That does not even mention the eradication of those who did not agree and his cognitive dissonance concerning Hiroshima and working to bring USSR Nuclear missles in Cuba claiming it would be good to use them on Imperialist American. probably just my opinion, and I overgeneralized. Maybe that offends me and not you because I believe he lied all along about Jesus Christ and I am hoping to convince people of that? My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. 15 And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. ), Warren Throckmorton quickly put up a post on this development and featured the following video. And shame on these preachers at these churches giving MD a platform to relaunch his church-related career. His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. Pastors that dont understand the devestation they cause by playing God in peoples lives, especially women and childrens lives, have no business calling themselves christians and certainly shouldnt be in positions where people might think they are speaking for God Himself when they tell them how to live. yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. starts with: Just show-biz. Christians have to be different than that. The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. So, where are the reasonable people? I will post about this. @ sam: There was an uncanny feeling to this experience. Let me look it up. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. Help keep The Christian Post free for everyone by making a one-time donation today. I am thinking that is no doubt true, but Saul/Paul was also a religious activist who had double crossed his former sponsors in Jerusalem who had given him credentials to go seek out believers for persecution. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. Just some thoughts to consider. Gateway also directly lifted the slogan every number has a name, every name has a story.. spiel verbatim from Perry Nobles NewSpring to try to distract from the reality that every member is seen as a giving unit number (no attribution to Perry, of course). The women say as part of the program they were taught to believe that they were possessed by the devil, and have since been forced to receive years of professional psychiatric treatment. http://www.mercyministries.org/, though she scrubbed some posts referring to her involvement when it was hillsong ministries mercy ministries there are still a few unscrubs left here and there. rocks are flying people are shouting opposition and accusations., in christian language christians are like sheep, opponents are like wolves, alpha, saul. They are showered with gifts and once you relinquish your highly prized contact data more gifts will follow to your home address. Mark was talking about Mark. With BHouston, JLindell and MD there is no hope. Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. Do my eyes deceive me? It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. It was never presented to me as something evil just something totally unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? The pews were uncomfortable. Otherwise, quit calling those 40 pastors and all those victims liars. stephen is suffering for doing right. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts Hillsong Church Disinvites Mark Driscoll While James River Church I seriously doubt that most younger people then or now who appropriate his image (here in N. America) know much of anything about him. In 2010, Outreach magazine listed James River as one of the fastest-growing churches in America. I do not for one minute believe they are suddenly open. That is certainly not an idea they got from the Bible. I hope you found some of the above helpful. He dropped the moral bar for both pulpit and pew that has far reaching consequences on the way we do church. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: one passenger died. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. James River Assembly, Ozark MO. Then you can better understand the depths of this deception. I hope others will join in at places like this blog and help shed light on local megas in their area. Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? (he is still famous and worthy of famous people helping him) things you have heard about mark are not even close to true, what you read on the internet isn't true. But guess what else happened? Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. All 6,115 words of it. . How Much Does James River Church Pay in 2023? (26 Salaries) I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. James River Church | Ozark MO - Facebook Im so used to the megas Velcro bars where they only care about you if they can slap some Velcro on you to make you come back so you can become a tithe payer. But. Its just that it isnt what a NT pastor of a group of Christians should be doing. Do you know his history and what he represents? Its also called community in a box. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. Working at James River is never be boring because of the mission that you are pursuing and the amazing things that you get to be a part of. i have very little church experience so i dont think i am qualified to even speak to these things though. so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. Unfortunately, during this difficult season, the focus has been taken off of Jesus and put on me, and that is not what The ROC is all about., http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_8c6b7719-c4af-523b-b3a6-3c6131e32fd3.html. . http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_4d131547-f913-5d43-bfc5-5a292f4c27e1.html, What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. Maybe Driscoll can do commercials like John McEnroe, i am against that sort of ministry, that sort of authority over people, that sort of famousness, that sort of using the gospel of Jesus to make money and become well known in christan circles, that sort of using Jesus name for any personal gain, that sort of i have special insight from God and heres how much you have to pay for it in my new book, that sort of quit saying i have to be asking to be forgiven if i hurt people that sort of we are all brethren but i am alpha brethren i dont hold unforgiveness toward mark driscoll but i am not for anyone anywhere doing that sort of ministry. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? But it would be encouraging if they did. It was like my eyes were open. But here is the underlying issue: we in evangelical Christianity have become so good at eisogeting the scriptures (reading ourselves into the story) it has gotten to the point of narcissism, or as one preacher puts it, narcigesis., Dont believe me? I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. He is a draw. It is anguish because i love them, and see the pain of all three of them. Galatians 5:22-23. Whats worse, total lack of good character. where is Mark Driscolls apology to over a thousand children in two orphanages? In the case of Chandler, the fudgy language in the apologies does not instill much confidence that the root has been exposed so that it can be dug out. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. Pokin Around: Mega-church pastor tells members to repeal gay rights law 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, Did he have liveried Armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce how HUMBLE(TM) he was (chuckle chuckle)? (Those wounded by MD) must forgive even if (MD) never admits wrong. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. Did Paul plagiarize? At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. For a number of reasons Texans dont want to say bad things about a church no matter how many people are being hurt. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. James River Church - YouTube Just like Jerry Springer would invite the Duggers on his show after the scandal? What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. I also told him that before I wrote this story, I transcribed his sermon. It was dingy and old. Thats right, the head pastor no less! -Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truths. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. Christian County has unfortunately seen an overwhelming rise in COVID-19 cases over the past several weeks and a subsequent increase in the number of hospitalized residents. sponge is used as toilet paper. You make an interesting comparison. Did this evil plot involve the use of ninjas or leprechauns? The disciples send him off to Tarsus and after that-there was peace for a time in the churches in Judea, Galilee and Samaria.:o). then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. that young man is in jail, he didnt receive a huge sentence and is receiving a great outpouring of care and compassion from the community. Do these Pentecostal leaders believe that there is a doppelgnger out there who tied MD up in a basement then impersonated him, swearing and saying horrible things from the pulpit? They are used to being believed no matter what they say. Only the hero. Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. This pastor was humble! Youd think theyd feel a sense of civic duty there. Until that flaw is named and claimed, it is reasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen again. Who has harmed you? i dont have that conscience when i am running off on my own and not caring about serving Jesus, but instead caring about how big my kingdom is or how big an influence i am making or how much press i got this week or how many people got baptized. Also, you dont want the sheep to get uppity. By the way, what do you call a person who tells lies? I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. (?) Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. Mark Driscoll should not be a preacher ever again. There were a number of other worship songs that roll on after this one, if these are your taste. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. I told him that. Very simple. (Jesus is a pastor?) I am thinking visitors, right? Van, I agree with Deb. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. I hope I am wrong.
William Mapel Tv Shows,
Craigslist Nanny Jobs Orange County,
Articles J
